Language and use thereof...

[sildil]

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, what do people feel about the use of, for want of a better word, 'profanities'? And what do you class as such?

Personally, I have very little problem with what people say, it is what is behind the expression that I don't like. I mean, some people can say something very mild, but if it is with the deliberate intention to shock or hurt and with bad feelings behind it, then that upsets me more than something stronger said casually.

Now I admit that I swear occasionally, well, probably quite a bit when stressed..well OK a lot if the computer gives me a stupid error message, but usually don't in 'normal' conversation, and I don't have a problem when others do. BUT if someone were to say something without using ANY swearing that was offensive, say, racist or homophobic, then that WOULD upset me.

As a parent of 18, 16 and 14 year old teenagers I have always tried to teach them that what matters is the context and the use of words, rather than the actual content that matters. They swear, mildly, (at least at home!)and only occasionally (at home!) but I do not criticise or judge...hate it...I grew up with enough of that to know what it's like. There is nothing worse that trying to express a strong feeling and being corrected on one's grammar! (And other half had it far worse than me, being the son of a journalist!) And I consider them to be old enough now to know what is 'right and wrong' and how to use words effectively.

Personally?...I would rather the occasional mild cuss said unthinkingly or in 'innocence' than words of any other sort that deliberately hurt and humiliate, and believe me, I've been on the receiving end of plenty of those. Just wondered.

Comments

[eveiya.livejournal.com]

I agree. Heh, I would - I'm Scottish. Swearing is a huge part of everyday speech between friends, strangers, co-workers, whatever, and nobody bats an eyelid. I know I swear a lot in normal conversation, but even so I'm probably not really aware of just how much I swear...I don't think any words are considered taboo or shocking in Scotland for reasons of profanity, so if you really mean to insult somebody, you have to do a bit more than simply swear.

Pretty much every swearword I know I heard from my mother at a very early age - usually directed at me, my sister, or my father, hehe. My father never swears; his favourite expletive is "jings" which always had all the rest of the family in fits, but although my parents (schoolteachers!) always tried to correct my sister's and my grammar, they certainly never bothered about our swearing.

Online, I do make a conscious effort not to swear as much as I normally would in RL speech or in my thoughts - not everyone is Scottish, after all, heh. But yes, it's the sentiment, the intent, and the underlying attitude behind the words rather than any language used that I might find offensive.

[sildil]

Father in Law is Scottish, so I know what you mean, though I have never heard him use any particularly strong curses, but then he is pretty inventive!

But my Dad swears and always has, and as you say, so much so that I am rarely aware of it..I only noticed it when the kids were very little.

I think I have only used very strong language once or twice online, and then only in 'private' conversation in IM. I tend to treat online postings as I would if they were printed letters...I don't write the same way that I speak for example.

And as you agreed, someone can try to disguise a pretty offensive statement in the prettiest language but it will still upset me, swearing or not!

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

.....INTERESTING topic.

I grew up in a household that you didn't swear. PERIOD. I recall as a teen, tripping on stairs and ramming my knee into the corner/edge of the next step and seeing stars. Apparently I used 'F' word at that moment and got a lecture while standing there in a haze of tears because my leg felt like a donkey had kicked it. It was, by-the-way, no excuse.

I married a jock. This jock and his brother use the 'F' word and other locker-room expletives in everyday conversation to the point that I don't really notice it anymore unless we have company. They are fairly good these days about curbing the overuse of them (unless in the thrall of a heated sporting match) ~ as I have pointed out, that there is a dictionary filled with excellent words to fill in the blanks with.

I agree with you...should my teens use it in will only correct them if the situation warrants it. I am not going to be the emotion censor...but I do want them to know when it looks bad on them, and if I use curse words (and I do) I will apologize for the profanity but not the reason for saying it.

The thing that I find very curious is this pseudo-curse word...'shite'.

I used swear words in my lj to make a point, but usually I hide behind little stars as in the newspaper....ie; f**k. This is the written medium and it effectively gets the feeling across a.s.a.p.

People also use 'shite' for this purpose ~ but it has now migrated to the real world, where individuals use it in oral conversations and I found it ridiculous. My father used it recently and I just was stunned. OH he uses profanity in front of me more often now, having decided he is an old fart who has earned the right....BUT I am very amused by this particular word.

I know what it means.

The speaker knows what it means.

Does changing the pronunciation make it less of a profanity when you are using it in place of the true one for the same purpose?

....the point of the exercise is what?

Neutering an expletive.

Rendering it sterile and palatable to the masses.

....kinda defeating the purpose if you ask me ~_^

[sildil]

Yes, I know what you mean about any pseudo-curse word, in particular, 'shite'! It always seems ridiculous to me..either use the proper one, or just don't bother at all!

And talking of teenagers, I remember when my eldest, (now 18 and therefore entitled to speak exactly how he sees fit!) was quite young, about 6 or 7, using the 'F' word...I told him not to, (though not particularly angrily) and then left the room. Then I thought, that wasn't particularly helpful of me, poor kid! so I went back in and sat down and explained what it actually meant. It suddenly seemed ridiculous to 'ban' a word, and in fact after that he didn't use it again, at least not until he was much older, and I like to think it was not because of my 'censorship' but because he was intelligent enough to work out the right and wrong use of words for himself.

And like you, I have ranted and vented my spleen and sworn like a trooper, and rather shocked the kids in the process, but I do apologise afterwards and I suppose the slightly positive side to my losing control in such a childish, and I hasten to add, rare manner, is that they do at least see that sometimes you can push your mother just a bit too far! (ie: failing to answer your bloody mobile phone while mother sits in a car at midnight outside the 'Muse' concert in amongst what looked like a middle-aged demented school run, waiting to take said teenager and his brother home and wanting to tell them where she had parked. His answer as to why he didn't answer his phone was, 'Oh, I saw it was you, and got fed up with you bothering me, so I ignored it.'..I think I showed admirable restraint under the circumstances, merely cursing!!!)

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

" think I showed admirable restraint under the circumstances, merely cursing"...Yeah...he is lucky to still be alive *^_^*


I have had full-blown tantrums when the teens have pushed all the buttons and they KNOW that lines have been crossed and the frothing-at-the-mouth creature was their making...

I will after the fact breakdown for them the exact process they used for the reaction they had witnessed..causation and effect...and tell them they were lucky to get their ears lashed and not their behinds ~_^

[eveiya.livejournal.com]

LOL, "shite"'s Scottish, I think - at least, it's nothing new or unusual here, it's been around for as long as I have, anyway. Fully interchangeable with shit and probably about equally often used, exact same meaning and strength of emphasis - or possibly "shite"'s slightly more emphatic. One of my mother's favourite endearments for me was always "verminous, ungrateful little shite" and variants/elaborations of same.

It's funny - now that I consider this, I automatically speak a different language when I'm talking to non-Scottish folk or in more formal situations. I think this is pretty much the case with everyone in Central Scotland; I do it without even thinking. It's not just the swearing - I speak more slowly, pronounce many words differently, use different words in general. Otherwise I just wouldn't be understood. Yet, around my home area, speaking in my normal way in jobs dealing with the public or whatever, I'm always getting slagged for talking posh and asked if I swallowed a dictionary for breakfast, LOL.

[elbereth-elena.livejournal.com]

I have various different 'languages' that I use. On for home, one for school, one for friends, one for writing, one for science coursework, one for the internet and the on I use for strangers. Peculiar as it may seem I use different words, swear words, accents, phrases etc for each. I also tend to change accent to mimic the person I'm speaking to. Which can be difficult when my very scottish cousin is visiting...
I believe I can blame the Scottish part of the family for my using 'shite' as 'shit' but not to moderate it. They are interchangable.

I am trying to cut back on my swearing because sometimes the 'languages' get mixed up and I'll use a word that's inappropriate. Unfortunately I just invent words to compensate or use words my grandfather used. He had some unusual expressions that are too good to be ignored.

I agree that it is not the word but the meaning behind it that matters. And I have not been censured for using words (other than at home where using f*** is absolutely outlawed) unless there was an ulterior motive. There was a brief time when mum decided to crack down on swearing but it only lasted a week before my dad was bankrupted by paying fines!

I do however still remember my mum using the word f***. She had never said it before and suddenly she was directing it at me. I have never been so shocked in my life. This is perhaps an example of how frequency of use can have a huge effect on the impact of a word

[eveiya.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know what you mean - because my father usually doesn't say much at all and certainly doesn't swear, he can make more of an impact with one slightly sharp remark than the rest of the us do by turning the air blue.

I remember my mother once, while in one of her more religious - or maybe just more bitchy - phases, started to nag my sister and I for "taking the lord's name in vain"! Now that was a good one, considering she did it herself all the time. We took to jeering and applauding every time we caught her out, so she fairly soon abandoned that campaign.

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

HEY....isn't that funny about how we all adjust our language to suit our environment. I live in a university town and when I visit my parents at their rural home and people drop by, I am ratcheting the language up and down gears depending upon how 'city or farm' they people are...


Mind you I lived in a very blue collar neighborhood for 10 years before moving into my current home and did the same thing as I commuted to school uptown from a factory-neighborhood with prostitute-central 2 blocks away. *^_^*

As for 'shite' tis fairly new to the vernacular in my part of Canada....thanks to the internet ~_^

[eveiya.livejournal.com]

Hehe, my parents came from fairly down-to-earth backgrounds, farming and manufacturing, but they're both quite educated, had professional careers, and they married late, so they had money enough to own a house in a fairly "posh" area. One of the funniest things I saw through my childhood was my mother, preparing for a major rant or a cursing session, first of all rushing round the house to close all the doors and windows - so the neighbours wouldn't overhear her language! ROFL. My father, my sister and I would of course take our cue to stick cotton wool or toilet paper in our ears. It was an ongoing family joke...still is now.

A few times, my wicked father hid a microphone and taped these rants, which could go on in full flow for hours...then he'd play them back for laughs when she was all done. Must find out if he kept any of them, LOL!

Somehow, if you have a Scottish accent, "Ya wee shite" just trips off the tongue better than "You wee shit" - I think that's the only real difference between the two. I can see it probably doesn't work as well in Canadian, LOL. Ahh, how the benefits of the internet can enhance our lives, huh...?! :-D

It's like when "Neighbours" was first shown on UK TV - didn't take long to gather that the word "spunk" has a somewhat different usage down under, but there were a few giggles along the way.

[sildil]

Yes!..I remember that about 'Neighbours'!...and it reminded me of my other half's tales of being an exchange student in the States, firstly, he never asked if he could borrow someone's 'rubber', had to remember to call it an'eraser', and secondly he said that the first time a bloke came up to him and introduced himself by saying, 'Hi, I'm Randy' it took a lot of self-control not to burst into fits of giggles or run!

And I know what you mean about the scottish accent and 'ya wee shite'..it sounds rather affectionate!..but then to me, anything said with a Scottish accent sounds attractive!...*sighs*....aahh, Billy Boyd....*goes off muttering to herself*