Behind a cut for religious education...

[sildil]

In my happy clappy church days (yes, don't laugh, I DID attend several incarnations of a large, independent, charismatic, falling down on the floor at times, dancing in the aisles church in south west London) there were in fact several ways that one could bitch, be spiteful and pass judgement on others, and trust me, no-one is as judgemental as a rabid happy-clappy churchgoer.

Obviously we weren't supposed to, oh no, that was definitely against the spirit of the original founder, but it was amazing just how much could be got away with under the guise of 'helpfulness' or 'concern'.

'Shall I pray for you?' could strike fear into the strongest of hearts, if said in a certain way that meant 'I think you have a problem even if you don't and I am bloody well going to make sure you do have by the time I am finished'.

And then there was gossip by prayer circle. 'Let's pray for our sister who has been struggling with her spitefulness and dependence issues who we are not going to name because that's not christian but she's sitting over there in the corner looking angry and spiteful'. All heads turn and nod wisely or smugly depending on their feelings for said victim.

Or; *person affects concerned expression* 'I heard that something was wrong with /mutual friend/ and wondered if I could help or pray for them?' In other words, 'dish the dirt, come on, you KNOW you want to,' to which the answer was either a superior, 'no, that's OK, the pastor knows about it and we are dealing with it' (ie; 'you, you lesser mortal, as if you are going to be included in amongst the illuminati' or, 'oh thank you, yes he's been struggling with /name problem/ for so long and every little helps' ie; 'at bloody last someone has asked me and I can gossip about it and please do spread the word.' ).

This doesn't just happen in church of course, it happens wherever there is a group of people in close proximity be it a religious group, a political party, an action group or even, dare I say it, a Live Journal.

I think I'll leave it with James:

'Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark...with the tongue we praise our Lord and Father and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness, out of the same mouth come praise and cursing....can both fresh water and salt flow from the same spring?' (James 3:5, 3:9-11)

Comments

[chloe-amethyst.livejournal.com]

Oh heavens, I'm not throwing any tomatoes! I very much liked and agreed with your post and cared only to share my similar experience in a mainstream church. It's a very good topic for us all to wrap our heads around sometimes and I was very glad to read your thoughts as you made excellent points with much clarity. I'm sorry if it at all sounded like it was contradictory to your post, because I really agree with what you wrote and thought it was excellent. :-)

You are absolutely right about judgement being a useful too sometimes. I certainly use it to disassociate with people who I'm pretty sure I would clash with because of their past behavior--something I've used regarding the friending problem on LJ. And I wouldn't be able to get this divorce if I couldn't make some clearer judgements about my hopefully-soon-to-be-ex and only blamed myself for everything. Judgement is an excellent tool. I should have clarified and explained I meant the more petty kind of judgement that is based purely on speculation, like the rotten things I assume about my neighbors (shame on me), or assuming a young girl is a slut because she wears large hoop earrings (met a lady last week who believe that), or that all slashers must be child abusers, or my personal most hated--all fat people are ugly and lazy. So yes, I agree with you there very much! :-)

Excellent points you made about the essence of forgiveness too. I was in a discussion once with a group of Celtic pagans and we were wrestling with the notion of honoring ancestors since that is a focal point of Celtic religion. The problem was, what if you have an ancestor, such as a parent or grandparent who was absolutely horrid, or an abuser or something? What do you do? Some of us felt that we could forgive as a way of freeing ourselves from the chains of anger and pain we had. Others said that we can honor the lessons we learned from them about how *not* to be (good point) and thus honor them, and others said for them it was impossible to have anything but hate because the pain was so bad. It was a very useful exercise in exploring the notion of forgiveness and how it differs for people. I do believe forgiveness is like a balm and a gift one gives to oneself, and never forgetting the behavior keeps you protected and helps you to find a different path in your own life. :-) It's an issue I believe I always wrestle with, and there are certainly folks I forgive, but whom I no longer choose to associate with because I know the bad stuff will only happen again.

I always had a terrible problem with office gossip. At first, I had people who were sworn enemies of each other coming and telling me all the trash about each other because I was everyone's sympathetic listener who hid my own feelings. After a few years, it was me spreading trash because I thought it would win friends (making friends has always been difficult for me). Of course when it came to bite me on the ass a few times, I realized what an ass I was being myself, and now try to nip it in the bud or change the subject.

Very good discussion and also quite enlightening and helpful for you to bring it up! :-)

[chloe-amethyst.livejournal.com]

P.S. Please don't throw out your soapbox as you make terrific observations based on life experience and I'd love to learn more in future posts. :-)

[sildil]

Heh, no, it's a special sooper dooper folding one!!!

[sildil]

LOL, now my turn to apologise! I didn't mean you were throwing tomatoes, I was just waiting for anyone else who thought they might!

But isn't that just a clear and pertinent point in itself about the dangers of what we write for public consumption?! What is a completely impersonal comment by one can be seen as a dig or criticism by someone else!

Yes, those first impression judgements! Trouble is, it's SO HARD when people fall straight into the trap of behaving exactly as you expected them to!!!

Oh, the views on forgiveness! REALLY interesting. I used to have real difficulty with the (christian) command to honour your father and mother. First of all, my real father and mother handed me over for adoption by paternal grandmother, so that was a bummer from the start, and secondly, paternal grandmother (now 'mum') was an emotionally abusive manipulating...person. So how was I supposed to do that? In the end I came to an understanding of what made all parties the way they were and forgave them, but it was a rough road for a while. And still..honouring them? Well, I guess undertanding where they came from is the closest I could get.

Oh I recognise that last paragraph too! Heh, been there, done that AND have the t-shirts!

:D <3<3<3